Greetings From the Dark Side

[Neiru2012]

@opalescent wrote:

What do you see as the Void’s stance/response toward Order?

At first pass I’d have to say its response to “order” is disgust. But that’s not really true. Not only does Void not have the concept of “disgust,” it also enters Manifest incarnation willingly. They might see a friend entering incarnation as losing a playmate, but that’s not true either, since not only do they continue playing with them, but being outside of space and time makes any sense of parting irrelevant. Frankly, I don’t think Void cares much one way or the other about order. It barely registers as a state of consciousness let alone a threat. Void inherently destroys order without putting any effort into it or giving it much “thought.” Manifest dark, though… that can be threatened by order. I can speak for myself that if you put me into a calm, tame, safe (in the sense of preserving forms) environment it drives me insane and I feel as though it can kill me. I thrive in conflict, catalyst, motion, momentum.
@opalescent wrote:

It is not the Void that I was saying was still, but That Which Is beyond the Void, and beyond Light. Beyond chaos and beyond order is a point of perfect stillness which exists outside of space and time and therefore well beyond the limits of language. A concept akin or identical to zero point. Beyond form, movement, desire. The point where a fractal jumps to another level of pattern, when ordered frequency vibrates itself out of form, and chaos becomes… what, help me here… um, potential? I’ll stick with that for now… at that point, that’s the stillness I am referring to. Formless potential. The womb at the point when the soul enters the fetus, where light exists in darkness and that is its experience, while darkness becomes aware of light growing within it.

I know the “zero point” of this universe and I feel the chaos of Void, but I haven’t experienced anything beyond either the Manifest or the Void, so can’t comment on it. Void is abstract enough and I don’t expect to try to understand realities incomprehensible even to Void until I’m fully in the Void. Void is already beyond space and time, it is already a wholly other level of pattern and beyond form. It is already the formless potential from which souls and worlds are born, where darkness becomes aware of light (incarnates as the Manifest or becomes a hybrid) and light returns to darkness. What you are describing isn’t beyond Void, but Void is beyond what you are describing. What you are describing is Void’s relationship to Manifest light, but Void is also a reality in its own right existing for itself. I couldn’t begin to describe what that reality is like, but my point is that the Manifest is very limited in what it can imagine and theorize on from its perspective (as I’m sure the Void is to realities beyond itself, if there are any). Based on my information, what you described is not ultimate reality but a vision of the next layer (Void). Except that I don’t feel it as stillness at all, not in the sense that Manifest understands the concept. It is very much in motion. There are things far beyond this universe’s “zero point,” and realities where things like “form” and “desire” have no meaning. Not because they have transcended it, not necessarily because they are “beyond” it, but because they are a completely different world, with lessons, situations, and experiences (if they can be called that) we can’t begin to imagine from our perspective just as they can’t imagine ours.
@opalescent wrote:

How do you define light in stagnation here? Coherent light is ordered in phase, so any stagnation would, to me, be either the unexpected introduction of chaos (light not knowing how to respond to dark, in shock), light closing off any introduction of chaos as a creative force, or phase shift in between levels of engaged awareness. Do you see it as form, crystalline or otherwise? Or as Bill Hicks said, energy condensed to a slow vibration?

I define light in stagnation as “light closing off any introduction of chaos as a creative (and especially destructive!!) force.” That’s what I mean by saying that light, by itself, is “stagnant”… or, if you prefer, “stable.” It is concerned with knowing and being what exists, not with catalyst or change. I see Manifest light as form – crystalline, silicone, carbon, fluid, gasseous, energy, etc. It doesn’t matter what vibration Manifest light is, it’s still a form. Soul, spirit, idea, thought – all forms. If it can be defined, contained, restricted, stabalized, or noticeably changed, it’s a form. Forms can’t survive in the Void.
@opalescent wrote:

So, to your thinking, are light and dark expressions (and as such able to be perceived by form) of Manifest and Void, which are themselves experiments of a formless source? I see a progression kind of like, a source/consciousness/OM (for lack of a better word), then potential/dark/Void, then form/light/Manifest, then experience of a section of a continuum, the edges perceived as light and dark.

I see Dark as an expression of Void into form, but I see Light as the definition of the Manifest. Experiments of a formless source? The Void is already formless and the source of Manifest worlds, so that’s misleading. The Source beyond Void? That’s confusing to me. I don’t really organize my cosmology as originating from a central “Source” except the one that exists holographically in everything. I see it more as a mass consciousness field that collectively organizes the multiverse into various expressions, and layers of expression, as the need for them arises. It is very fluid and most likely not objective at all, but instead wraps itself around every smallest particle (or, rather, exists within it) and lets that particle shape its own experience of reality organization. Perhaps it is helpful for you to organize the world in terms of “Source”–>Void–>Manifest, and from the perspective of the Manifest that organization is very relevant and helpful, but it doesn’t make sense from the perspective of Void. Again, Void is its own reality layer. Its purpose for itself is infinitely more than just “potential.” I couldn’t begin to tell you what it is, though. 😛 What I sense of it is simply its default state of “being,” not what it uses it for. That state of “being,” is chaos, destruction, power, bloodlust, fighting, freedom and, of course, formlessness.
@opalescent wrote:

This thread weaves some complementary themes to this one, Farewell to Power.

I guess I have to disagree with that thread’s definition of “power,” just like I disagree with most definitions of “ego.” Power in Washington? Power over others? That is not the “power” that the Void stands for. The Void’s power is “emanation of Self.”

[opalescent]

Ah, language gains clarity around these ideas! This is like a FAQ 😛
@Neiru2012 wrote:

I can speak for myself that if you put me into a calm, tame, safe (in the sense of preserving forms) environment it drives me insane and I feel as though it can kill me. I thrive in conflict, catalyst, motion, momentum.

😆 I do understand that!
To one who fears Chaos, however, it is perfect… 😎

I know the “zero point” of this universe and I feel the chaos of Void, but I haven’t experienced anything beyond either the Manifest or the Void, so can’t comment on it. Void is abstract enough and I don’t expect to try to understand realities incomprehensible even to Void until I’m fully in the Void.

My husband and I were talking about this today. He said it’s like when men are in the thick of battle, in total chaos… time slows way down, there is nothing but silence and confusion. This, I see, regarding what you say, is akin to entering the void… at least, a tangible example from the 3D world. Much valuable knowledge has been buried that was known to warriors of old, especially the matriarchal warrior cultures, about entering the battlefield of Chaos, death, and transcendence.

Void is already beyond space and time, it is already a wholly other level of pattern and beyond form. It is already the formless potential from which souls and worlds are born, where darkness becomes aware of light (incarnates as the Manifest or becomes a hybrid) and light returns to darkness. What you are describing isn’t beyond Void, but Void is beyond what you are describing.

Okay, I am reaching clarity on your definition of these words. Do you see there being an idea of Void? If so, do you see that as generated from within the Void, a response of the Manifest to the Void? “Idea” is both generated and generative…

I see Dark as an expression of Void into form, but I see Light as the definition of the Manifest.

I see both Dark and Light as sourcing from Void. “Manifest” is getting in my way… is not Dark also manifest?

Experiments of a formless source? The Void is already formless and the source of Manifest worlds, so that’s misleading… The Source beyond Void? That’s confusing to me.

Experiments of a formless source = Consciousness creating from Void
Source = Field
I do not see Source as a point, that is too definite a geometry. Given the programming we are generously provided on all levels in this world, it is easy to become trapped in a sense of linearity, but that cannot work when you’re talking about consciousness on the scale you have here. So…

I don’t really organize my cosmology as originating from a central “Source” except the one that exists holographically in everything. I see it more as a mass consciousness field that collectively organizes the multiverse into various expressions, and layers of expression, as the need for them arises.

… yes, the word Field works better there.

That state of “being,” is chaos, destruction, power, bloodlust, fighting, freedom and, of course, formlessness.

I see Void as That in which matter breaks down into particulate, elemental, sublime thought… or, to get beyond mind, possibility. I understand all the words you use here except for “fighting”, unless that can be translated as the impulse/force/act of breaking bonds of form-in-resistance. Can you elaborate on that aspect of Void? To me, fighting implies some kind of egoic state, and form entering the Void would experience no resistance. Forms of Light and Forms of Dark–I can see them fighting, but to me, all surrenders to deconstruction and return to potential within Void, consciousness returning to consciousness. I can, however, understand “fighting” as an explosive reaction, like antagonistic chemicals in contact going kaboom. I’m translating my understanding into your vocabulary, so bear with me! Here’s a bit of writing on the subject which I channeled a year or so ago:

“From the beginning of your universe, all of creation balances itself. All things are of a nature which seeks balance, harmony and simplicity. All things are of a fractal nature, too. The anchor to the boat of seeming balance is a page of nonsensical mathematical formulas cascading over the edge of reason and sanity. Rising from the depths of the ocean it powers across is a leviathan against which no vessel can maintain balance: Chaos, satisfied only with distance, power and ramming itself as deeply as it can into a love-doubting area of consciousness. Humans do not understand the outside influence Chaos remains long after your attention has become fixed on marauding distractions. If you did, you would remain a staunch, cozy ally to raggedy old Chaos and have a nothing-but-random attitude yourself. It is the only way to maintain sanity in the multi-dimensional universe you are about to discover.”

@opalescent wrote:

This thread weaves some complementary themes to this one, Farewell to Power.

I guess I have to disagree with that thread’s definition of “power,” just like I disagree with most definitions of “ego.” Power in Washington? Power over others? That is not the “power” that the Void stands for. The Void’s power is “emanation of Self.”

I was just suggesting that your viewpoint might be helpful in the discussion there. 🙄 😉

I have probably taken up enough of this thread with my musings on the subject for a while! 😆 Thank you for your patient responses!

[Neiru2012]

@opalescent wrote:

To one who fears Chaos, however, it is perfect… 😎

Which is why it exists.
@opalescent wrote:

My husband and I were talking about this today. He said it’s like when men are in the thick of battle, in total chaos… time slows way down, there is nothing but silence and confusion. This, I see, regarding what you say, is akin to entering the void… at least, a tangible example from the 3D world. Much valuable knowledge has been buried that was known to warriors of old, especially the matriarchal warrior cultures, about entering the battlefield of Chaos, death, and transcendence.

Yes, I do thinkt he sacred warrior mentality is linked to Void energy. It expresses itself as everything from the “Moon Sickness” I described in the first post to a more Manifest-friendly version, such as Protection. It is the warrior spirit in the sense of self-expression, understanding others (the idea that you can only know someone by fighting them or seeing how they react in extreme situations), and transcending the sense of mortality. It is fighting without hiding in armor, as a display of skill, honor, and the embrace of death as the path to immortality. The moment it crosses over to “fighting for self-preservation” or “for the sake of winning” or detached modern warfare-at-the-push-of-a-button it ceases to be Void-influenced. Void fighting is carnal, in-your-face, mixing your blood with theirs. Yet it can also be the “silence” of perfect concentration and reflexive instinct in the midst of chaos. In that sense it can be used as a symbolic example of “entering the Void,” since without that strong, confident, passive (taking no effort to be/maintain) center, the Void would tear a being to shreds just like in battle. But if you take “silence and confusion” in the sense of being paralyzed, lost, deaf, panicked, fearful, anxious, unsure… it is nothing like that. It also depends what you mean by “confusion.” To me confusion, as it relates to the Manifest, is a sacred state of destabalizing forms. It unsettles rigid patterns to make room for the next level of truth.
@opalescent wrote:

Okay, I am reaching clarity on your definition of these words. Do you see there being an idea of Void? If so, do you see that as generated from within the Void, a response of the Manifest to the Void? “Idea” is both generated and generative…

A little confused what you mean, but I’ll attempt to answer. I there an “idea” of Void in the Void? No. Can Manifest beings have an idea of what Void is? Yes. Will it be accurate? No, lol, but god knows we try anyway. So then the “idea of Void” is a Manifest attempt to conceptualize Void, inspired by filtered Void energy.
@opalescent wrote:

I see both Dark and Light as sourcing from Void. “Manifest” is getting in my way… is not Dark also manifest?

Dark is a kind of buffer zone between Void and Manifest. I currently understand it as the quantum level of the Manifest, or the theorized “quantum foam,” where things freely blink in and out of existence and do wacky things that defy the conventional laws of physics. It is the dormant consicousness of the incarnate Void being and the most mundane means by which Void influences the Manifest. So Dark sources from Void, but isn’t quite Manifest (or Void). Manifest light also sources from Void, in the sense of being Void fully incarnate in form. I say “Manifest light” because I want to restrict it to the light spectrum found in this universe. Manifest light is always manifest, so they are pretty much synonymous to me. Manifest light can also manifest its interpertation of Dark tendencies stemming from Void. In that sense, Dark can become Manifest. Somehow I feel this hasn’t made things any clearer, but I did my best. 😛
@opalescent wrote:

I see Void as That in which matter breaks down into particulate, elemental, sublime thought… or, to get beyond mind, possibility.

Yes, Void is beyond mind so “thought” is misleading except as a placeholder for a vastly different type of consciousness. “Possibility”? That is what it does for the Manifest, and perhaps one of the best words the Manifest has for conceptualizing it, but again, it is much more than “possibility” even though there are no words to describe what that “more” is except maybe “freedom” (and even that is only relevant from the perspective of Manifest restriction). Now as far as the other words I mentioned…
@opalescent wrote:

I understand all the words you use here except for “fighting”, unless that can be translated as the impulse/force/act of breaking bonds of form-in-resistance. Can you elaborate on that aspect of Void? To me, fighting implies some kind of egoic state, and form entering the Void would experience no resistance. Forms of Light and Forms of Dark–I can see them fighting, but to me, all surrenders to deconstruction and return to potential within Void, consciousness returning to consciousness. I can, however, understand “fighting” as an explosive reaction, like antagonistic chemicals in contact going kaboom.

Okay, we’re running into conflicting definitions of “ego” here, but I’ll bypass that (to me “ego” is the sense of self, the seat of power, the thing gives perspective and allows expression as an individual by distinguishing itself from others). I tried to describe what I mean by “fighting” in the first post. Maybe you would understand it better as “friction.” It is the Void’s means of energy sharing/exchange and experience of bliss. I call it “fighting” because they do this in a way that feels very violent and aggressive to Manifest beings… and because if they should try it towards a Manifest being, the Manifest being would be annihilated either instantly or very painfully. So, if I understand your thoughts correctly, it is towards the Manifest what you call the “act of breaking bonds of form-in-resistance.” This is the force similar to one found in black holes. But it is only a by-product of Void energy. Void beings themselves don’t “friction” against each other to break down forms (since they have none). It is just their natural state of being. It’s fun! XD

As far as my view of power being useful in the other thread? I don’t know, that channeling uses a whole host of other definitions that would take too long to unravel. I’d rather leave that channeling alone for those that resonate with it and address the issue of power here.

P.S. Haha! I just noticed all of my posts besides the original one are on the darker tinted background!

[opalescent]

@Neiru2012 wrote:

the idea that you can only know someone by fighting them or seeing how they react in extreme situations…Yet it can also be the “silence” of perfect concentration and reflexive instinct in the midst of chaos.

😆 And I can attest that 4-year-olds are masters at teaching this! 😯

To me confusion, as it relates to the Manifest, is a sacred state of destabalizing forms. It unsettles rigid patterns to make room for the next level of truth.

Yes, I too see it as shattering rigidity… most beneficial for entrenched belief patterns which cause stagnation.

I there an “idea” of Void in the Void? No. Can Manifest beings have an idea of what Void is? Yes. Will it be accurate? No, lol, but god knows we try anyway. So then the “idea of Void” is a Manifest attempt to conceptualize Void, inspired by filtered Void energy.

Understood. Do you see there being an Idea from which Void originates? The relatively puny mental capacity of amnesic incarnate Being creates the idea of something from which Void emanates, conventionally called “God”. However, I think the greater understanding would be that Void is Self-aware (with a capital S) and therefore generative of itself. This all gets into chicken-or-egg kind of reasoning, doesn’t it… but I am interested in your cosmology, so please, if you would, describe the relationship between Void and Field?

Yes, Void is beyond mind so “thought” is misleading except as a placeholder for a vastly different type of consciousness…”Possibility”? That is what it does for the Manifest…(to me “ego” is the sense of self, the seat of power, the thing gives perspective and allows expression as an individual by distinguishing itself from others)

Thought = That which finishes the phrase “I AM …” (To me, in these terms, Void would be simply expressed as “I AM.”)
Possibility = Potential
I am in agreement with your meaning of ego… it is a wily thing and a brilliant teacher, when it’s recognized as that.

Maybe you would understand it better as “friction.” It is the Void’s means of energy sharing/exchange and experience of bliss. I call it “fighting” because they do this in a way that feels very violent and aggressive to Manifest beings… and because if they should try it towards a Manifest being, the Manifest being would be annihilated either instantly or very painfully.

Always aggressive and painful? Can it not also be a dance? Can it not also be surrender?

[Neiru2012]

@opalescent wrote:

Do you see there being an Idea from which Void originates? The relatively puny mental capacity of amnesic incarnate Being creates the idea of something from which Void emanates, conventionally called “God”. However, I think the greater understanding would be that Void is Self-aware (with a capital S) and therefore generative of itself. This all gets into chicken-or-egg kind of reasoning, doesn’t it.

I there an idea from which Void originates? Can’t really answer that since I haven’t experienced a reality beyond Void. But Void is definitely “Self-aware and therefore generative of itself.” I think the chicken-or-egg problem only comes up in linear time. I don’t really see ultimate reality as having beginnings or endings, it just always is/has been/will be. Still, I say Void came first!! 😆 They even call themselves the Firstborn in my stories (usually in the context of “you dare challenge the might of the Firstborn?!” :P). After all, Manifest is generated from Void. But then again, the Manifest can also generate Void. 😯 (see “Universes Within Universes” in my first post)
@opalescent wrote:

Describe the relationship between Void and Field?

What is the relationship between Manifest and the Field? What is the relationship of anything to the Field? It exists in all things and enables the expression of infinite realities and perspectives, Void and Manifest being two of them. It is the common ground which connects all things regardless of light spectrums, consciousmass, or any other divisions that arise. It is the underlying unity which makes holographic individuality possible. I don’t really see it as having relationship with things, or directing things in any way, as much as just allowing them to shape their own experience of reality and evolve an endless supply of wonderous playgrounds. So the relationship of Void/Manifest/anything to Field is a bit like the relationship of Programmer to Code.
@opalescent wrote:

Thought = That which finishes the phrase “I AM …” (To me, in these terms, Void would be simply expressed as “I AM.”)

The state of “I AM” and “zero point” are transitions into Void “consciousness,” but it’s important to remember that Void has its own version of thought which is unlike anything here.
@opalescent wrote:

Possibility = Potential

I use “possibility” and “potential” interchangeably. They are the most basic way Void influences the Manifest, and it is a passive thing that they don’t notice or likely care about. Void does not exist to serve the Manifest nor does it obssess about the Manifest. Void can also influence Manifest in much more complicated and exotic ways (such as “Moon Sickness”). This is, again, not typically something that Void beings go out of their way to do. It is a result of a Manifest being remembering their Void core, whether or not they understand what it is. But the Void is its own reality with its own learning environment. It is the next layer of evolution. It can’t be seen as a stepping-stone in a Kabbalistic-style cosmology where energy trickles down from the mind of God/dess to find ultimate expression in Manifest forms.
@opalescent wrote:

I am in agreement with your meaning of ego… it is a wily thing and a brilliant teacher, when it’s recognized as that.

I would say that the ego isn’t “a teacher” but “the teacher.” It is the sense of self, without which there is no perspective or individual expression. If evolving (not simply existing) without the sense of self was possible, the Field wouldn’t keep generating more and more imaginative kinds of separation. Maybe somewhere it’s possible, but I haven’t seen it.
@opalescent wrote:

Always aggressive and painful? Can it not also be a dance? Can it not also be surrender?

I don’t know, lol, how would you describe being torn apart and crushed by a black hole? As long as you are entrenched in the world of form, dismantling that form will be painful and threats to that form will be seen as aggression. I guess Void and Manifest can dance, but it might get awkward since one of the partners will keep exploding (I’ll let you guess which one). Dark and Light can dance much better, and do so all the time. Surrender? Surrender to what? One has to surrender attachment to forms in order to survive the Void. This includes, but is not limited to: who you think you are, who others think you are, who you want to be, who you’re trying not to be, and confusing your Self with memories and experiences. All these things are forms. Void destroys forms, and if too much of your sense of self is invested in them, you as an individual would also be destroyed. Only the eternal center which has integrated the essense of experiences into a passive (taking no effort to maintain) state of be-ing can withstand the Void. It is the eye of the storm while the Manifest shell is torn to pieces all around you.

[opalescent]

Thanks for all your responses, Neiru. Sounds like some interesting stories you’re writing… for publication, for sharing on the site?

I shall watch your thread with interest.
Peace.

[Neiru2012]

They are sacred stories I carry across lifetimes to remind me who I am and what my place in the multiverse is.

[Will]

…this is very interesting Neiru…

…so You are of the Manifest right ?…

…are you a spokesperson for the Void ?…

…does the Void possess conscious awareness ?…would that not make it a part of Manifestation ?…is it not a part of All That Is ?…

…I see the Void as a blank slate …the potential upon which Manifest comes into being…

…your dialogue seems to separate Void from those that follow a Service to Self policy…
…help me to understand your position…

[Will]

…maybe Void and Manifest are a tapestry of inseparable weft and weave…

…an eternal dance …

[Neiru2012]

@Will wrote:

…so You are of the Manifest right ?…

My body is of the Manifest. Whether or not I am is debatable. I am a hybrid of Void and Manifest. I am from the Void (but who isn’t?). The difference between me and the majority of beings native to this universe is that I’m not sure if I am of the original incarnate Void being. I’m not even sure if I can be considered part of this universe. As of right now I believe I entered it as either a group of independent Void beings-turned Manifest hybrid, or as a single Void being-turned Manifest hybrid who expresses itself as many entities. We can be considered the Manifest’s antibodies who make sure the incarnate Void being (this Manifest universe) can sleep and dream undisturbed. By “undisturbed” I mean to make sure that pure “beings” from the Void don’t enter it prematurely and that it doesn’t return to the Void prematurely, both of which would result in the complete annihilation of the Manifest universe. We are the “Void-like counter-balance” I talked about in the previous page of the thread. In other words, we protect the Manifest in ways Manifest beings can not. But to say we are Manifest is misleading. We do carry inside us Manifest light to be able to interact with the Manifest, but our Void aura emanates into the Void and isn’t perceived by those who can’t see the Void’s spectrum. If the Manifest was cloth, our presence is seen as imprints in the cloth to the Manifest spectrum while our true self is behind the cloth.
@Will wrote:

…are you a spokesperson for the Void ?…

Void speaks for itself, but it wouldn’t go out of its way to communicate with you. Being on a different light spectrum, it doesn’t even see you or care to look for you. It is an entirely different layer of reality, but its influence is so great that it can passively affect Manifest worlds. And good thing that it can, since without its influence things here would stagnate. But if you want to think of it this way, I am a spokesperson for the spokesperson for the Void. Or, more accurately, a spokesperson for the mass consciousness of the Void hybrids who protect the Manifest.
@Will wrote:

…does the Void possess conscious awareness ?…would that not make it a part of Manifestation ?…is it not a part of All That Is ?…

It (Void beings) possesses a kind of conscious awareness that is unlike anything in the Manifest. No, that doesn’t make it (them) part of the Manifest, because this incomperably different “consciousness” is so chaotic and expansive it would instantly rip apart the Manifest and/or “wipe” the affected parts of it clean of data. Thankfully it is extremely difficult for a pure Void being to enter the Manifest since its consciousmass exceeds the capacity that the Manifest is designed for (see my explanation of “consciousmass” on the first page of thread). Think black hole. Is it part of All That Is? Depends what you mean by “All That Is.” It is not part of “All That Is” in this universe, but it is part of “All That Is” in the multiverse. It is a major reality division of the multiverse.
@Will wrote:

…I see the Void as a blank slate …the potential upon which Manifest comes into being…

Well it’s not! XD Its influence on the Manifest is a passive by-product of it simply existing. It is its own reality layer infinitely more vast and diverse than anything the Manifest can imagine. The consciousness of just one Void being can create the diversity of an entire universe. But for those that live in the Void, it is its own world, with its own learning environment. The quantum Dark and quantum foam is a little closer to the “potential” upon which Manifest comes into being, but even Darkness is its own energy with its own tendencies which bleed through from the Void. I work with Dark energy and hardly ever use it for its passive “potential” aspect. I’m much more interested in its gifts of freedom, protection, Self-empowerment, world-building, and working with the Void gates (Fear, Doubt, Death).
@Will wrote:

…your dialogue seems to separate Void from those that follow a Service to Self policy…

The “Service to Self” and “Service to Others” labels are meaningless to me, and have nothing to do with Dark or Void. But if you must put labels on things then I propose thinking in terms of beings who function from “Inside->Out” and “Outside->In,” or “Power through Self” and “Power through Others.” Void and its Dark offshoot are strongly “Inside->Out” and “Power through Self” aligned, and promote individuality and Self-expression. Then you have the “Outside->In” and “Power through Others” alignment, which can be expressed as communal power and/or the desire for power over others.

Since Zingdad hasn’t had time to reply yet, I shall quote parts of our conversation which I think are relevant here… *summons Zingdad* 😛
@Zingdad wrote:

The problem is that many, many people on this planet (and many of the spirit beings in its environs) are not in their truth. They are light beings but they do not bring energy into the system. They have become lost, confused and hurt by this system (which is not hard to do) and have begun, instead of bringing energy in from Source, to try to steal it from others around them. They become petty energy leeches. In so doing they become a kind of perverted darkness. They are light-which-is-darkened. Like anything which is badly out of its truth, they are an aberration, an illness. So most people on this planet (and the spirit beings around it), when they talk of darkness are actually referring to this phenomenon. Not TRUE Darkness, but light beings which steal and leech energy. Which is a contamination and an illness in the light system. Because you see the energy (light) which they steal from others is not returned to Source. It is used to feed themselves and then it remains in the system and stagnates. And until it is returned to the person it was stolen from it just rots and hurts both parties… especially the energy thief.

Because these beings are not True Darkness, they cannot successfully do what they are trying to do. It just does damage all round. And so it comes to be… that there are countless spiritual healers around the world for whom it is absolutely true that they encounter interactions between two beings and the one is “of the dark” and that “dark” being has done damage to itself and to the other and this needs work and healing. And it’s true… from their perspective. But you see, we never have had to come across a being such as you. And if we did we wouldn’t see you as ill and so wouldn’t go looking to discover your nature. After all you are not here stealing other people’s energy! So that is where it is at, as far as I can see. I think there is a story that needs to be told. I think we need to reclassify this sickly aberrant quasi-darkness with a new term. Perhaps “light-thief” or “ill-light” or “light-leech” or “darkened-light”… I don’t know. Something. I think it is time to recognise that True Darkness is something else. Something that we need.

Heheheh… “Light-Leech.” I wouldn’t call it “darkened-light” though, I’d just call it “Light-Leech” or “Light-Thief.” 😀
@Will wrote:

…an eternal dance …

See my take on the “dance” metaphor in the last post of the previous page. ^_^;

[Alusa]

@opalescent wrote:

It’s a fascinating mind-bender, all this, as fear can be used as both sword and shield… as can ego, which is, perhaps, a child of fear.

I’m not sure if I agree with this. I don’t know what you mean by child of fear, but I know the ego can definitely stand on its own. The ego is what allows you to experience life here from the perspective of an individual identity. Your ego becomes who you define yourself as, “I am this occupation, I have this experience. These are my hobbies, I own these objects, this is what I love/work for and this defines me.” Most people attach the ego to something, and that is what makes the drive for conflict, because the ego has to protect. And I know there are those out there who say you have to “kill” the ego to ascend but that’s a stupid idea. Its a part of you, you shouldn’t hurt yourself, a person that thinks they are doing that, is simply having the ego reattach to something greater than the typical self individual conciousness and redefining itself. What your ego is, or isn’t attached to is what helps you determine the path you strive for and what experiences you will attract/encounter to fulfill that. Its purpose is to allow you to identify yourself so you can decide how to play, as you change so does the game.

@opalescent wrote:

How do you define light in stagnation here? Coherent light is ordered in phase, so any stagnation would, to me, be either the unexpected introduction of chaos (light not knowing how to respond to dark, in shock)…

Darkness makes you face yourself, introduction of chaos isn’t stagnation, pressure makes you grow or life will move on with out you. On the contrary any kind of chaos is a catalyst that breaks up stagnation, its dynamic and always gets things moving. I usually see the opposite happen, stagnation because people refuse to look into the darkness and face themselves or others. Looking the other way because it can cause unpleasant discomfort, when you embrace it and stop running from it most of that discomfort goes away. I used to do that and I’m done looking for the easy way out. Chaos can help make headway, forest fire before the trees can grow.Opal somewhere along the way I got the impression you think void is a just a metaphor, I can assure you its a very real place. I don’t usually open up this side of myself but I have some experiences that might prove too valuable to leave out of this thread, I am going to address some things Neiru said maybe you can get a better idea from that.

@Neiru wrote:

I don’t know, lol, how would you describe being torn apart and crushed by a black hole? As long as you are entrenched in the world of form, dismantling that form will be painful and threats to that form will be seen as aggression. I guess Void and Manifest can dance, but it might get awkward since one of the partners will keep exploding (I’ll let you guess which one). Dark and Light can dance much better, and do so all the time. Surrender? Surrender to what? One has to surrender attachment to forms in order to survive the Void. This includes, but is not limited to: who you think you are, who others think you are, who you want to be, who you’re trying not to be, and confusing your Self with memories and experiences. All these things are forms. Void destroys forms, and if too much of your sense of self is invested in them, you as an individual would also be destroyed. Only the eternal center which has integrated the essense of experiences into a passive (taking no effort to maintain) state of be-ing can withstand the Void. It is the eye of the storm while the Manifest shell is torn to pieces all around you.

Once I felt I had something to prove to myself… all of me (my soul fragments too) one of my fragments volunteered to enter the void. We aren’t afraid of death or pain. She flew into a black hole, her body was torn apart pretty quickly. She focused and held on for about 3 minutes the void stripped her conciousness of all sorts of garbage (I suspect all the things that were the forms Neiru mentioned). It felt like it was fading, dying. She focused and held onto herself, after a while it felt like she was extinguished but after that there was a HUUUGE sudden conciousness/energy spike. The energy and conciousness was very chaotic, and it just kept expanding and expanding rapidly, never stopping. She got so huge so quickly I could not even feel the totality of her conciousness anymore, I couldn’t contemplate it (gave me a headache). She seemed to be grasping all sorts of ideas and concepts that were way beyond me, she had a high on her own strength her state of being self-empowering. She loves her life/experience over there now, and has no interest in coming back here. The void is very literally a real place.

@Neiru wrote:

The most classic example of this is something I call “Moon Sickness.” Undistorted, this is the purest remembrance of immortality. But after passing through Manifest filters, it typically surfaces as either sadism, masochism, or both. It is an insatiable bloodlust (more in the werewolf sense than the vampire sense) where you get high off pain because it no longer registers as dangerous. Restraint and remorse go out the window. You grow disconnected from the Manifest structures contributing to your existence (ex: body, mind, house), and don’t understand that you’re harming yourself and/or others. This is the result of taking Void energy literally and not harmonizing it with the rules of the Manifest.

I had a case of what you call “Moon Sickness” once. I had been thinking about darkness, void, meditating on it and couldn’t think of anything else. I started looking inward so much focusing on my own strength and I kind of went into that state. It was a self feeding empowerment. All I could see was my own strength, my own immortality I FELT it I KNEW it I AM. I felt the sadism and masochism state of mind, I was high off my own strength which fed itself, eminating from inside. Nothing could truly hurt me ever again. It was wonderful, I knew/know I have total control and nothing can hurt me unless I allow it. Its wonderful to feel what was previously “pain” of any kind, not fall to it and feel your own strength. I logically understood things could still hurt the body, I could physically die, but I didn’t care, my own strength and I loved it, nothing else matters. I have never forgotten it was a valuable experience that changed me forever.

[echo]

I’m still afraid of the dark 😯 I still keep a nightlight in my room 😀 hahaha just kidding!

It’s funny how we often use the term light vs. dark. I’m not sure if it really has much significance to how we feel. I could be wrong, but it’s hard to imagine two infinite forces trying to spread either freedom or control across space and time. I feel it symbolizes more our desire to create conflict or a common enemy. This is something we’ve done in the past. People tend to unite when they are faced with a common enemy. So in our case what are we fighting/uniting against/for?

light vs. dark
good vs. evil
black vs. white
wrong vs. right

It doesn’t matter what you say. The two sides merely have to contrast each other. You could say red vs. green if you wanted to… But in this case darkness is or seems like a much more appropriate term. I think it’s fair to say that people can associate with light vs. dark because it stands for more than its literal differences. It’s a metaphor and people can also associate better with metaphor because of all the parallel meanings you can come up with. So essentially, everyone can relate to it, no matter how differently we think. If you watch old western movies you’ll notice how the hero either rides a white horse or wears a white hat, and the villain just the opposite, rides a dark horse and wears a black hat. But here’s a contradiction: I’m sure you’ve seen the Matrix. This time around the “good side” is clad in black while the agents are clean cut wearing suits and ties. Different, but the motif basically remains the same.

We should all acknowledge (or at least keep in mind) that white doesn’t necessarily represent good and black=evil, that is just a fallacy. That’s just something we’ve grown accustom to, something we’ve picked up on, from what we’ve been taught, or even led to believe. You could say that this sort of thinking is tied to racism or religion or politics. Pretty much anywhere you look the pattern is there. Pay attention to the stories or movies you read or see or hear. The light versus dark theme is a good technique to draw in listeners and excite them. And when good triumphs over evil, it makes for an excellent happy ending.

But it’s silly (to me) to pick sides or say that one way is the right way and believe at the same time we are all “one”. That’s like saying you can believe any religion you want, any myth you want, but Judaism is still right right belief system… Or you can play with anyone you want on the playground, but that doesn’t mean you are one of the cool kids. 😀 And when you chose a side you neglect to understand the opposing “force”. So basically, you could be the exact same caught in a conflict with no end. It’s like opening a window but refusing to go outside.

And with that being said, I give you another metaphor in the disguise of picture. One of my all time favorite symbols 😀

I guess my question would be: Is this just part of our reality? Is this something we create to maintain some kind of balance? We like to claim that we are all one, we are all connected, but in reality we are not. In our minds we are. I don’t think that it would be normal to hold onto two different personalities inside yourself. So our bodies are separated so that our minds can comprehend the differences in our reality. There are a lot of dualities:
Our awake state vs. our sleeping state
Life vs. death
light vs. dark
And more importantly Man vs. Woman. How can something so similar be so different? I mean physically we are the same, but (obviously) different. We think and feel the same, but (because of said differences) at the same time we don’t. How could we know and feel the same if we don’t experience it for ourselves? The answer is we don’t. We assume we know or refuse to understand so there is a lack of understanding. Kind of like the white dot in the black section of the ying-yang (metaphor for everyone!!!) and vice versa. It’s like we create this divide between sides and by pushing on one end the other side moves in accordance. Therefor all we are doing is creating a whirlwind of confusion when all we need to know is there always has been balance because of this duality. It’s always been there for us to witness, but you can never change it. It only fluctuates like a frequency wave.

So I say do not choose a side, or choose both sides, or stay right in the middle. Be the dividing line and bend like the frequency. If you say you are understanding, then you should know that things aren’t always right vs. wrong (don’t get me wrong, there are definite wrong things and definite right things)…


Think of those to lie on either side of the spectrum and things become hazy/controversial when they meet in the center (when they are essentially the same, the only difference is difference in opinion). So I guess you can stay in your own respective circle if you like, just be understanding like I know you want to be and come to terms with other ideas and other sides of the same argument, because when you come together the picture becomes bigger and more beautiful.

I could go on to talk about how each person is a shape and how we intersect our consciousness, instead of becoming one, forms more of a web, etc. etc. But when you say the you are from darkness or you are the follower of light it sounds to me like you are thinking in a 2-dimensional state of mind. (I hate to sound like I’m preaching to the choir or even offending anyone, but) Break away from our pointless dualities and embrace all the wavelengths of color. In reality White is the absence of color and black is every color, just two ends of the same spectrum if you ask me. Make yourself (I’m speaking metaphorically) a prism so that when “light” does shine through you, you refract all the colors… There are 8 colors in the rainbow, at the center is yellow and green. When you mix them together it’s basically the most frequent color in nature (for living things anyway). So.. I guess what I’m saying is find your center, find your balance. My little message of love.

Sorry, but I just thought of this so I’m going to keep ranting 😀 When I think of people “living in darkness” I think: Depression, fear, or hate. I also see: pursuit of knowledge/truth, blind faith, and hope. When I think of people “living in light” I think: Joy, love, bliss. I also see: blind faith, pursuit of knowledge/truth, and hope. This may just be what I feel, but to me it’s like to sides of the same coin. Anyway, that’s my take on light and darkness…

Another thing, take into consideration the patterns of circles and apply that to crop circles. It’s like a beautiful display of conscious thought. If that’s not a sign, then what is?

~echo

[Alusa]

@echo wrote:

I feel it symbolizes more our desire to create conflict or a common enemy.

Were talking more about what darkness is literally rather than symbolism, but it sounds to me like your getting darkness confused with ego. But yes you do see things reflected all over the place symbolically if you know how to look for it.

@echo wrote:

So in our case what are we fighting/uniting against/for?

light vs. dark
good vs. evil
black vs. white
wrong vs. right

Nothing in life is that simple, a lot of misunderstandings happen when people try to see this way. One side is never all one way. Although, yes there is contrast and conflict. And even in the yinyang symbol the dots in their opposite color represent some sort of mixed/gray areas.

@echo wrote:

I think it’s fair to say that people can associate with light vs. dark because it stands for more than its literal differences. It’s a metaphor and people can also associate better with metaphor because of all the parallel meanings you can come up with. So essentially, everyone can relate to it, no matter how differently we think.

Again this is getting a bit off topic, this is mostly about the perspective of what void/darkness does. Everyone can relate to it but metaphors with perspective is so subjective you can get so abstract everyone thinks your talking about something different. Were trying to clarify what darkness is in a way everyone can understand. That perspective is needed because there are a lot of misconceptions floating around.

@echo wrote:

If you watch old western movies you’ll notice how the hero either rides a white horse or wears a white hat, and the villain just the opposite, rides a dark horse and wears a black hat. But here’s a contradiction: I’m sure you’ve seen the Matrix. This time around the “good side” is clad in black while the agents are clean cut wearing suits and ties. Different, but the motif basically remains the same.

This is about real life not television, where people tend to overemphasize, distort and romanticize things.

@echo wrote:

But it’s silly (to me) to pick sides or say that one way is the right way and believe at the same time we are all “one”.

I agree with you here, that kinda thinking tends to be contradictory, people often tend to look the other way if its something they don’t wanna hear. Or they talk one way and think another. Every part has some wisdom in it and is a piece of the puzzle, none is better than the other. There is no right or wrong, just whats better for you.

I am not going to address the rest of what you said because I feel it goes too off topic, except that balance of light and dark helps keep perspective so things don’t get distorted. Again this is about how darkness and how light and dark interact, not duality where its getting away from light and darkness.

[echo]

@Alusa wrote:

I am not going to address the rest of what you said because I feel it goes too off topic, except that balance of light and dark helps keep perspective so things don’t get distorted. Again this is about how darkness and how light and dark interact, not duality where its getting away from light and darkness.

Yeah, you’re right. It did become off topic, but to me, it was so related that I felt obligated to write. Plus it was one of those things that once you get started the thoughts keep coming. Maybe I didn’t clarify what I meant, but I feel that darkness and light are directly related and as a result I went on a tangent. Maybe I should take my post and put it in a thread labeled “echo’s think tank”. To be honest the topic title itself inspired me to write how I felt. I wanted to clarify for others and for myself how similar, not so much different, darkness and light are.

@Alusa wrote:

Everyone can relate to it but metaphors with perspective is so subjective you can get so abstract everyone thinks your talking about something different. Were trying to clarify what darkness is in a way everyone can understand.

That is the beauty of metaphor. It’s purely subjective. Every mind thinks in different ways, so a metaphor is merely a tool to help you grab on to that abstraction and draw you in to the meaning. I intentionally use metaphor because my definition is so broad/general. My goal is to use a like sense to trigger a feeling that an individual mind can perceive. The mind is an abstract thing.

@Alusa wrote:

This is about real life not television, where people tend to overemphasize, distort and romanticize things.

That is exactly what I’m trying to say, you just said it better than I could. I merely wanted you to think about it. Why do they use Black vs. White to represent Good vs. Evil? They juxtapose each other. Whether or not movies, television, or books affect the real life, the rooted imagery and archetypes do have an impact whether it be subconscious or not. All I intended was to show you how “darkness” was expressed through film and or through other sources of media.

@Alusa wrote:

Again this is about how light and dark interact, not duality, where its getting away from light and darkness

Light and dark are a duality, at least in my perspective. You can’t have one if you don’t have the other. You wouldn’t know what light was if there was only darkness. If there was never any light how would you know anything about darkness? If it was all the same, couldn’t it be called stillness, or nothingness. Yet there is an understanding of an opposite to darkness which is… brightness? There is an opposite to stillness.. things that move (light moves on a frequency). I could go on. It’s all a metaphor, or an abstraction, of what we see as duality in a very basic way: light vs. dark.

But I see what you’re saying. Comparing to Neiru2012 my understanding of darkness or the void being a physical/existent place is beyond my comprehension. I was sharing my opinion on the topic of darkness and it’s counterpoint in a way that I know is accurate. To me I feel that darkness and brightness is something of importance to the life I live.. now.. here.. and at this time. I don’t know about most of you, but I still feel pretty solid and each second ticks as long as the last one. So I apologize for being off topic

[echo]

To be honest I didn’t read through this thread in it’s entirety until now. I guess it’s not really fair to give my opinion on a subject when I don’t fully understand the material. I only briefly read what was written since there was so much there. But I went through after I posted and now have a better understanding of the subject. It would be hard for me to even suggest to someone something that I don’t understand. Unlike Neiru2012 or Zingdad or and other sort of channeler I can’t claim to know of anything outside my own reality. But I do feel confident enough to share my beliefs on the light and dark I have experienced.

So forgive me if I’ve led this topic astray, but I still feel that what I’ve said still has some relevance. Some of what i said was similar to what other had mentioned. Sorry it’s not as mythical or mysterious, but I think it’s important to the physical reality that we live in.

[Author]

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