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November 14, 2008 at 4:12 pm #6683opalescentMember
certainty: Though you may have a considerable amount of information about a thing, enough to say with confidence that it is what you purport it to be, you may find another fact or figure which curtails your trajectory in the direction of absolute knowledge about the thing and introduces an element of doubt into your otherwise tidy equation of this balanced with that. There is always more information than you can possibly collect in a single lifetime on any subject; thus metaphor is handy to gather what is understood and distill it into a neat little package. However, metaphor requires some sophistication of thought and a fair degree of play in order to be effective as a tool for arriving at a point of knowingness about something that could be said to even approach complete. Besides that, it invites subjective interpretation and thus is relatively inexact for reaching what could be called objective consensus. Language too has similar limitations, being basically metaphorical by nature. Mathematics can be trusted by those who understand its particular emergent structure, yet it is bound by the limits of understanding of those who put together fundamental notations in ignorance of the true form of the idea they seek to express. And so, you see, there are inherent blockages to full and complete understanding of the nature of that which you call Universe, or Multiverse, which can be expressed between individual seekers of truth in the language of exposition, poetry, or mathematics. Music, art and other modes of expression likewise have inherent limitations when it comes to absolute knowingness. The experience of certainty is not something that can be expressed in such a way that its essence can be grasped by reading about it. Although the paths leading to such an experience are utterly subjective, even though they can be shared by many and diverse, the experience itself is universally acknowledged to be at the same time true and indescribable, unitary and unknowable without access to a greater Self than is commonly acknowledged, absolute and yet infinite. No matter what the subject, the experience of certainty is thus.November 14, 2008 at 4:41 pm #11080WillMember
…this is from the Urantia Book…
…after a discussion of the situation of quarentene on this world…
050:7 THE REWARDS OF ISOLATION
50:7.1 On first thought it might appear that Urantia and its associated isolated worlds are most unfortunate in being deprived of the beneficent presence and influence of such superhuman personalities as a Planetary Prince and a Material Son and Daughter. But isolation of these spheres affords their races a unique opportunity for the exercise of faith and for the development of a peculiar quality of confidence in cosmic reliability which is not dependent on sight or any other material consideration. It may turn out, eventually, that mortal creatures hailing from the worlds quarantined in consequence of rebellion are extremely fortunate. We have discovered that such ascenders are very early intrusted with numerous special assignments to cosmic undertakings where unquestioned faith and sublime confidence are essential to achievement.
50:7.2 On Jerusem the ascenders from these isolated worlds occupy a residential sector by themselves and are known as the agondonters,meaning evolutionary will creatures who can believe without seeing, persevere when isolated, and triumph over insurmountable difficulties even when alone. This functional grouping of the agondonters persists throughout the ascension of the local universe and the traversal of the superuniverse; it disappears during the sojourn in Havona but promptly reappears upon the attainment of Paradise and definitely persists in the Corps of the Mortal Finality. Tabamantia is an agondonter of finaliter status, having survived from one of the quarantined spheres involved in the first rebellion ever to take place in the universes of time and space.
50:7.3 All through the Paradise career, reward follows effort as the result of causes. Such rewards set off the individual from the average, provide a differential of creature experience, and contribute to the versatility of ultimate performances in the collective body of the finaliters.
50:7.4 [Presented by a Secondary Lanonandek Son of the Reserve Corps.]
…interesting read…November 21, 2008 at 11:23 am #11081RickyMember
So are they saying in order to grasp fundamental truths absolutely we must have direct experience or to be able to receive information telepathically which is not colored by speech, metaphor and the interpretation of music or art??
What would then be the alternative to receiving certainty in universal truths or truths of any kind ? or are they saying you cannot get a full handle on such truths because of the ever changing nature that is the universe due to cer-taint-y being taint-ed ? 😆
I might be talking rubbish i had to read it 3 times to get my head round it 🙂November 21, 2008 at 12:29 pm #11082AnnanMember
I am happy about my agondonter status, aswell as my soon Morontia beeing-ness…..wow….now we are internal Will 😀 😆
The “ability” to believe without seeing is of the most precious abilities, Urantia inhabitants behold. And on many many other of the mansion worlds, envy us in this world for this ability. Believing without seeing is, if contemplated on, stunningly beautiful…..and takeing into regard that 95% of the inhabitants of Urantia, believes in God……which is per se a definition not an experience……well, that makes me quite proud on behalf of this little place, in the large of the largest of larger multiverses!
Nice read Opal and Will and Ricky 🙂
Annan the NordicNovember 21, 2008 at 12:44 pm #11083jamwolfskyMember
“The wisdom of the Buddhas is infinitely profound and immeasurable. The door to this wisdom is difficult to understand and difficult to enter. Not one of the voice-hearers(student) or pratyekabuddhas(enlightened researcher) is able to comprehend it……This law cannot be described, words fall silent before it……
Shariputra, the Buddhas preach the Law in accordance with what is appropriate, but the meaning is difficult to understand. Why is this? Because we employ coutless expedient means, discussing causes and conditions and using words of simile and parable to expand the teachings. This law is not something that can be understood through pondering or analysis. Only those who are Buddhas can understand it. Because the Buddhas, the World-honored Ones, appear in the world for a great reason alone. Shariputra, what does it mean to say that the Budddhas, the World-honored ones,appear in the world for one reason alone?”
“The Buddhas, the World-Honored Ones, wish to open the door of Buddha wisdom to all living beings, to allow them to attain purity. That is why they appear in the world. They wish to show the Buddha wisdom to living beings, and therefore they appear in the world. They wish to cause living beings to awaken to the Buddha wisdom, and therefore they appear in the world. They wish to induce living beings to enter the path of Buddha wisdom, and therefore they appear in the world. Shariputra, this is the one great reason for which the Buddhas appear in the world.”
The Buddha said to Shariputra, “The Buddhas, the Thus Come Ones, simply teach and convert the bodhisattvas. All the things they do are at all times done for this one purpose. They simply wish to show the Buddha wisdom to living beings and enlighten them to it.”
Lotus Sutra, second chapter(expedient means) .
In other words 😆 , you can truly understand Buddha by becoming Buddha yourSelf wich is the true wish of every Buddha.
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