[Neiru2012]

@echo wrote:

That is pretty unrelated, but I wouldn’t worry about it… The earth changes, it’s a natural thing. Hopefully, if it were to erupt, people would know to leave the area, stay safe.

Umm, actually, if it blows, it will kill everybody (that includes trees and bears and etc, not just “people”) within a minimum of 600 mile radius at best, and potentially cough up enough ash to block out the sun worldwide, causing food shortages and mass extinction across the globe at worst.

[Neiru2012]

Okay, I really shouldn’t be replying to this but…

First of all, here’s a LINK to the text version of this story for those with slower connections.

Second of all, out of all the replies on that page, I can’t believe I’m the most in agreement with the Bible-thumper: “This story is definetley not in the Bible. I dont like how you took the real story and twisted it.” For different reasons, but still.

I can appreciate the intention of this parable. Since the Christian mythos is dominant in the West, the author figures this is the best way to relay information about polarity to the people’s psyche. But I still can’t ignore that this goes against the spirit of the original myth as interpreted by Christians, by Satanists, and by Pagans. From the Pagan perspective, I guess my first disagreement is that the Judeo-Christian God is presented as the undiluted Source, and not simply one of many gods (beings who worked their way towards that status through evolution, like everybody else). The Genesis myth was, after all, designed to discredit pagan religions (since when are apples, snakes, and knowledge evil?). So, Lucifer can be seen as either a rival god. Or, if we’re working exclusively within the Judeo-Christian pantheon, “God” can be paralleled with Zeus and “Lucifer” with Prometheus. Lucifer has a lot in common with Prometheus. Both are associated with light (Lucifer as light-bearer, Prometheus as fire-bringer), and both can be said to truly love humanity, with a genuine desire to see them progress as empowered beings.

Lucifer was the first being in the Judeo-Christian universe to display critical thought, question reality, and challenge “God”s authority. Yes, the Christians say that he was jealous of God loving humans more than him, blah blah blah, but what did he actually do? Just as Prometheus brought the fire of the gods to humanity, Lucifer brought God’s knowledge (of good and evil) to humanity. It is thanks to Lucifer that humanity has the free will to question, to learn, to make educated decisions, to be as gods themselves. He is the liberator from blind faith/obedience. And, just like Prometheus, the Judeo-Christian myth says that God/Zeus punished Lucifer for it with eternal torture. I guess I don’t buy that part of the myth, at least not in Lucifer’s case. I really don’t see why he would be suffering from what he’s done. I think he’s quite happy with himself and doesn’t spend his free time torturing the “wicked.” If his will is to turn people against the Judeo-Christian God, it is not to spite them, but to enlighten them. After all, if we’re talking about an “orgy of darkness* and death,” that’s “God”s specialty, not Lucifer/Satan’s. Going by the Bible, God has killed at least 2,391,421 people while Satan killed 10.

So yeah, I certainly don’t think Lucifer thinks of himself as submissive to “God” or as a self-sacrificing martyr for the sake of the polarity experiment. He is playing out his own will and his own agenda as much as “God” is, and as much as any number of other gods and goddesses are. And as much as I am, or you are, or a tree is. And of course I also disagree with the singling out of Earth and humans as special, and with the constant references to hierarchy, but oh well.

*I do not condone this use of the word “darkness” 😛

[Neiru2012]

I’m very confused now. 😛
@Annan wrote:

Why do I need to go to war? War against cancer, war against drugs, war against poverty, war against Iraq, war against corruption, war, war, war, war……for me that is for me complete BS.

Sorry, that last is not at all intentioned against you.

No problem. I didn’t take it all to be against me. My point was simply that there are those who express themselves by going to war, and there are those like you who express their voice in other ways. But the voice still should be expressed. You counter-balance each other and catalyzing friction occurs. Physical action can be motivated by love and compassion as much as fear or hate. I participated in this year’s election out of love for this world. I send money to charities out of compassion.
@Annan wrote:

And as long as the transformational experience of death exists…..it must be feared? Is death the only way to progress, and is progress something that has some built in need to be feared? Not in my perception….as far as I do not percieve death as an obstacle for myself.

This is why I’m confused. I never mentioned death in the context of fear or obstacles. An unchanging world is the true death (in the sense of “end of life”)… the living death of stagnation. No, I love death, I love change. There is no fear here. If I fear anything it is stagnation. Death removes/transforms “obstacles” along the infinite spiral of evolution. It is through death that we are immortal.

[Neiru2012]

@Annan wrote:

So, what if I say, and we take into accountability, that death does not exist!? What would that make of this video? Why should I care, about some otherish groups want to destroy my material life? And that so if my REAL life in spirit, is about 10.000.000.000 times more real than that? Why all this fear? They against us…..find an enemy.,…my life is crap….its his or hers fault…..we must crack them down, take the power back…..what power?????

Okay, I don’t mean to single you out, Annan. I only take your quote because I feel it summarizes the general concensus that has been reached on this thread. Allow me to be the voice of dissent…

I found nothing fearful about the video. It was merely spreading information, or a warning, for people to be aware of what may be happening. There is nothing fearful or disempowering about gaining information. There is also nothing fearful or disempowering about caring what happens to your world. I would wager that, if anything, ignorance and apathy are the most disempowering in this case.

As long as we are learning, death will always exist. Death is change, it can happen to the mind, the emotions, the spirit, and yes, the body. Are you saying that the physical world is unimportant? Then why incrnate at all? The physical world is part of who we are as much as spirit is. It gives us the environment in which to grow and express ourselves. It gives us scenarios to play out – act and react to. Yes, play. This is a game. It is a multiplayer, interactive game is called reality creation. The point of this game is you having a say in what happens in your reality. Would you ignore slavery or genocide or pollution if you could do something about it? You can do things in many ways… you can act with your emotions, with your mind, with your soul… but seeing as how we’re currently in the physical world, one of the most powerful things you can do is react with your body. Take physical action, whether it is writing a book, going to protests, signing petitions, blowing up planes, or going to war. There are infinite options, and you may disagree with many of them, but that is the point, and that is why you must make your voice heard.

There need not be a mentality of winners and losers, friends and enemies, if that is not fun for you. It is simply a matter of the inter-reaction which keeps our universe in motion (evolving) – the interplay of free will and karma. If we stand by and not provide an active counter-balance to oppressive governments, they would overrun the entire cosmos, and may develop technologies that can restrict even the movements of spirit (as was the case in Orion). This would lead to stagnation, because even without spirit technology, oppressive regimes can hinder the expression of spirit. There are cultures where the idea of “love” does not exist. This doesn’t mean that nobody will ever find it, but it makes it that much more difficult. Incarnate beings are highly impressionable creatures who often don’t see outside their paradigm. A healthy universe makes all options viable – both joy and pain – as that is the meaning of freedom. But the only way this can happen is through each of us (provided we are conscious enough to be able).

I have no problems with a world government in principle. The vast majority of the universe has planetary, even stellar, governments. Many have whole interstellar empires. The only reason Earth has so many governments, and indeed needs so many governments, is because it is not yet consciously part of the interstellar community. It is acting as a microcosm of an interstellar community, with countries as placeholders for interaction that would normally be across light years. Indeed, if Earth does want to be part of the interstellar community, it will need a planetary government or council.

[Neiru2012]

@Annan wrote:

So please hold the hardcore fight back, until I can join in on it after the read

I think you missed it again. 😛

[Neiru2012]

When did I claim monopoly? I offer my perspective alongside everybody else’s.

[Neiru2012]

@jamwolfsky wrote:

Neiru, I understand your fight for recognized dark spritual energies, but where is the mysterious magical all embracing compassionate Love that goes with it.
I don’t touch!!!, darkness embraces all, partial truth and nonsense included8-) .

“I don’t touch” is my way of being polite and respectful. I would have ignored the topic altogether if Will didn’t bring me up. But he did, so I replied, again, to be polite… same as why I’m replying to you. What would be the point of of starting a discussion with no common ground? Waste of my time, waste of yours. “All embracing compassionate Love” has nothing to do with it. If people don’t want to acknowledge that Dark exists, that’s fine, it is not my way to intrude on others. I just give my perspective when I feel Dark is misrepresented (ie: they intrude on me first).

[Neiru2012]

@Will wrote:

…(waiting to see how Neiru bites on this one)…

Not happening. I don’t touch articles that deny even the existence of Dark. Not worth it.

[Neiru2012]

@jamwolfsky wrote:

I don’t see light as moving darkness around, the concept of light and darkness is just a question of relative intensity. As Neiru said, you can adjust your vision to darkness like an owl and realise there is much light in darkness and much darkness in light.

I appreciate your thoughts on gradient and the yin-yang nature of light-in-darkness and darkness-in-light. Everybody has both darkness and light, just as everybody is both male and female, but I just want to clarify by saying that is not what I meant in my post by “seeing in darkness.” I acknowledge that dark and light can express themselves as distinct energies that do move each other around, depending on intention and circumstance. It takes a different skill (or perhaps intention) to see in the dark than in the light. Although it is also theoretically impossible to see in pure dark or pure light since they are both blinding on their own… or, in my terms, pure light can’t see the dark and pure dark can’t see the light because they are on incompatible spectrums of reality. This has a lot to do with my unorthodox ideas about darkness, which I explain in another thread.

[Neiru2012]

@opalescent wrote:

Do you not know what it is to have regret, grief, or addiction? Or any of the other host of human experiences and emotional anchors that weigh a person’s spirit from soaring, or hide from them the path to knowing their own divinity?

If I feel regret, grief, or addiction, I usually indulge in them until they burn themselves out. Indulging in them allows me to process them most efficiently and I get over them pretty quick. They don’t weigh me down because I don’t treat them as an enemy, but as a vital part of a full and rich spectrum of experience. I’ve never seen them as obstructing any sense of “divinity” I have. I see them as “divinity” feeling those emotions through me, one of its infinite expressions. I believe my “divinity” wants me to feel these things.
@opalescent wrote:

I’m not saying darkness itself does that, but “personal demons” sure can.

See, calling them that just alienates them from integrating with your being. Maybe it’s helpful for some people to call them that, but I consider them yet another treasured part of me. They only cause trouble when you fear them, run away from them, fight them, or otherwise treat them as some kind of malignant cancer (and I think/hope this was also the point of your initial post). They are most benign and helpful when they are accepted as an integral part of a harmoniously functioning being.
@opalescent wrote:

Granted, “divinity” is a vague term, perhaps, but please don’t get caught up in the semantics.

Oh I do, I do get caught up in the semantics. If semantics weren’t important, “Right Speech” wouldn’t be one of the main tenants of (the Eightfold Path of) Buddhism. Now, I don’t like “external verbal language”… it is a terribly inefficient form of communication that breeds more misunderstanding than not. But since most of us still depend on it as the primary form of sharing ideas, wording is important. Wording betrays our mental associations and subconscious thought patterns. For example, even if somebody professes to love the dark as much as the light, if they constantly use “dark” and “shadow” as metaphors for unlikable, uncomfortable, or even “evil” things, this (1) sends the subconscious message to the listeners “dark = bad” and (2) reinforces the symbolism of “dark = bad” in their own minds. It can not be overstated how much influence symbol/metaphor have on the subconscious.
@opalescent wrote:

Will you use the time to point at the shadows and feed them your energy, or will you go silently within and look with fearless light-filled eyes upon them, bring them into the light of ever-darkening days and permit them to dissolve themselves into the love that knows no distinction between form?

This to me reads: “the dark doesn’t know love and is miserable. it needs light to come in and save it from itself.” To “bring them into the light” can easily be (mis?)interpreted as “change them into light.” Not saying that’s your intention… just saying that’s how it subjectively reads through my dark-friendly filter.
@opalescent wrote:

It’s imperative to go into the dark closets where you’ve shoved all the stuff you don’t want to look at.
…
When you go into “the closet”, into your past experience for the purpose of healing, and drag out all the crap you’ve either misunderstood or put off dealing with or held onto proudly as a personal vindication of having endured some bad trip, as people tend to do, then you’re entering into the realm of The Dark, right?
…
Misunderstood experiences from the past left to sit tend to get dusty and dirty and… dark…

Here you have mental associations of “dark” with “stuff you don’t want,” “crap,” “bad trip,” and even “dirty.” Am I nitpicking? Ohh yes… but put enough of these into a post and they pack a powerful subconscious punch! I wouldn’t consider that second sentence in itself as entering the realm of the Dark. Unless you mean distorted Dark.
@opalescent wrote:

…meaning the light of understanding (a universal metaphor) is hidden, occulted, darkened. Problems are dark when you close your eyes and refuse to look at them. However, the light of understanding is gained by going exactly there, to the dark places in one’s life experience.

This I would consider entering the realm of Dark, which is why your metaphor doesn’t work for me. “Light” as understanding, “Dark” as ignorance, doesn’t make sense to me at all (although I’m sure it does for some people). It is quite possible to see in the dark, and dark things are best understood by learning how to do that. Why not let your eyes adjust to the dark instead of complaining you can’t see and flooding it with highbeams? Shining light into the dark takes away visibility (any astronomer can tell you that). When you close your eyes and refuse to look at problems, that’s repression and denial – neither of which I would consider dark qualities.
@Annan wrote:

I am sensing a little stigmatization against the “night owls” amongst us….what about those that feel comfortable in the dark? Feel natural in the dark? Like the dark?

I sense this stigmatization, too, which is why I speak up. I also feel comfortable in the dark, natural in the dark, like the dark… which is why these metaphors not only don’t resonate with me, but take on a condescending tone.
@opalescent wrote:

Surely you don’t detest the light as strongly as you champion the dark? To me, they are merely stops along a continuum.

I’m fine with light as long as its “-workers” aren’t misusing it to oppress anyone (and yes, I see that often). I don’t champion the light because it has more than enough champions already. I believe the continuum you speak to be quite off-kilter in the spiritual community. That is why I try my best to provide counter-balance by championing darkness.
@Ricky wrote:

Neiru..your darkside always leaves me delving into duality with deep thought, and i thank you. Cos at the end of the day duality seems to bind us.

Not sure what you mean, but you’re welcome. 😀

[Neiru2012]

“Duality” has never been a problem for me. I put “duality” in quotes because it is not one of my priorities, but I notice people in the Light community seem pretty obsessed with resolving it, and to do so with the methods provided seems a contradiction to me. Personally, I never understood what people mean by “duality,” or why they want to “transcend” it. If by duality you mean “opposites,” I think those will always exist, they just won’t be in opposition. If you mean perceptions of “separation,” I don’t want to get rid of that. Now you include “having opinions”? I’m keeping mine, thanks. Disagreement is an essential form of self-expression.

[Neiru2012]

@opalescent wrote:

Shadow work is vital if you seek the light. This I have learned, as have many of you. There are certain times, natural cycles, that make delving into the darker parts of your heart easier, perhaps.

@opalescent wrote:

Will you use the time to point at the shadows and feed them your energy, or will you go silently within and look with fearless light-filled eyes upon them, bring them into the light of ever-darkening days and permit them to dissolve themselves into the love that knows no distinction between form? For are not the shadows and all their kind not also beloved and purposeful? We suggest looking with love on the regrets you have secretly harbored, the sorrows you have silently borne, the hopes you dared not voice for fear of shattering their delicate shapes or, worse yet, finding yourself at the razor’s edge between fulfillment and despair. Look with love deep into your secret chamber of horrors and know that in doing so, you do much to release the shadows from their bondage to the form of fear and liberate them into the possibility of peace. This is the time. Soon the light will shine more brightly among you if you do, without the burn of purging all at once.

Are these not contradictory statements? True you clarified “if you seek the light,” but if the purpose (as I’ve seen some here state) is to resolve “duality,” isn’t the goal balance (including between light and dark)?

Yes, it is true that the light of the sun waxes and wanes throughout the year, that we are approaching the deepest dark, and that this is naturally accomodating to work with the dark. It is a great time to delve deep and explore your darkest self. That is, this is a time to understand the dark for what it is, not try to change it (into light)! Is your darkness frightening to any of you? This is no reason to change it into something less threatening, “for are not the shadows and all their kind not also beloved and purposeful?” The only reason one would fear the darkness inside, or “point at the shadows,” is if you see them as separate from you and not treasured parts of yourself. Peace does not come from the “duality” struggle to transform darkness into light, but from making peace with darkness. This is done by working with it in its own right, on its own terms, without your preconceived notions of what it is. You may find it is not what you think. The only reason shadows would be in “bondage to the form of fear” is if you treat them that way and ostracize them from yourself. It is you who needs to be freed from this bondage, not the shadows. Once you can embrace the dark for everything it is without trying to change it, that is liberation.

[Neiru2012]

To those who feel a great injustice has been done in our country on November 4th, join the nation-wide protest of Proposition 8 this Saturday (Nov. 15)! Find your location HERE!

@Human Rights Campaign bulletin wrote:

“Will we be extremists for hate or will we be extremists for love? Will we be extremists for the preservation of injustice – or will we be extremists for the cause of justice?”
– Martin Luther King, Jr., Letter from Birmingham Jail

Our anger is just.
Our goal is vital.
Our cause is love.

The passage of hateful initiatives has ignited the passion of thousands.

Sign the pledge to keep fighting, loving, and listening – and overturn these laws.

On November 4, voters in California, Arizona, and Florida declared that lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender people are not equal under the law.

Our rights were stripped. Our love was branded unworthy of the name marriage, though our commitments and responsibilities to each other are worthy of nothing less.

We are angry – and that anger has moved to the streets.

This Saturday, thousands of people across the country, spontaneously organizing themselves in a truly grassroots movement, will convene to raise the call for equality. To find an event near you click here.

But as the LGBT community and its allies exercise our uniquely American right to protest, I hope we will remember that our actions in the streets will set the tone for the ongoing debate about marriage equality.

Will we reduce a human rights movement to tactics of recrimination? How we respond to these hateful amendments will say much about who we are.

Let the joyful faces of the couples receiving Connecticut marriage licenses for the first time yesterday remind us: our cause is love; and only through love can we win the freedom to marry.

Join with me and thousands of others – pledge to become an ‘extremist for love’ and fight to overturn these amendments.

The Mormon and Roman Catholic Churches played a huge role in the travesty called Proposition 8, forcing me to question whether members of those communities have forgotten the lessons of their own struggles against persecution. It is chilling to realize that the Catholic and Mormon Churches knew they were telling lies – that marriage equality would require children to learn about homosexuality in school, that priests would be required to solemnize marriages of same-sex couples – and they lied anyway.

In the wake of commanding support for Prop. 8 among African Americans, we are also asking ourselves why the community that has endured the most violent and persistent discrimination in our country’s history failed to understand our struggle for human rights. In this campaign we reached out to diverse communities, but we obviously failed to communicate to African Americans the interdependence of our struggles.

Have we heard the concerns of the people we asked to listen to us? We assert that marriage rights are basic human rights; we must also show that our concern for human rights does not end with marriage.

As we ask communities of color and religious communities to engage and partner with us, we must, in turn, demonstrate our commitment to the people and issues they care about. We must show that we will not turn away from the forty-seven million uninsured once we have domestic partner benefits, and that non-discrimination laws are not complete justice when legions of children are denied equal opportunity due to failing schools, violence, and racism.

Today, I recommit myself to being an extremist for love. I will engage my friends, family, neighbors, and coworkers – no matter what their religious beliefs or cultural backgrounds – and will ask them to engage me in their lives. I am ready to listen and act on their behalf, even as I make my case for their support.

At the same time, I will speed HRC’s public efforts to overturn these laws:

~Our Religion and Faith program is organizing a wave of dialogues with churches;
~We support the lawsuit to overturn Proposition 8;
~We are working to pass hate crimes, workplace equality, and other laws that will help more LGBT people to come out, since openness is the key to changing hearts and minds;
~And HRC will support all future measures to overturn these hateful amendments.

I ask you to join me today in promising to keep your anger and passion alive, and to turn them to the tasks that will broaden support for our cause.

Take the pledge to work for justice – and understanding – until equality is the law of the land.

November 4 was neither the beginning nor the end of our struggle. It showed us how much work is left to do, but it also brought out the passion we will need to do that work.

That passion will win in the end. We must hold on to it, and use it wisely.

Warmly,

Joe Solmonese
President

[Neiru2012]

Wonderful speech. Made me cry… and I don’t even care about marriage! (I don’t care who gets married, it’s just not my thing… I honor living emotional ties, not a piece of paper) I worked for the Human Rights Campaign this summer, and I can tell you the GLBT community faces a lot of challenges. Did you know it’s still legal in 31 of the 50 United States to fire someone just for being gay or lesbian? It’s rediculous but it’s true. But things are also getting better, I think. The fact that gay marriage is on the ballot at all is a testament to how far the GLBT community has come, and how close they are to their goals. And even though Proposition 8 passed, I also want to remind that so did Proposition 2 to outlaw battery cages for chickens and pigs on factory farms so that they would have room to stretch their legs and move around. While I’m greatly saddened by Proposition 8, I am also very happy about Proposition 2. To me, the right to be able to turn around is even more important than the right to marry.

[Neiru2012]

@opalescent wrote:

How are your feet? Glowing like the rest of you, er, us all?

My feet are a lot better. The power of Obama has healed me!! 😆

I don’t know what the Obama Presidency will bring, I don’t know how many of his promises he’ll be able to keep, but he has already kept one… He has promised us Hope, and he delivered beyond expectation. Hope for the USA, hope for the world.

Random funny toon:

[Author]

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